The Dictatorship
Epstein discusses jail time in newly released video with Steve Bannon
A newly released interview that ex-Trump adviser Steve Bannon conducted with Jeffrey Epstein provides a glimpse into the convicted sex offender’s complicated view of himself and his reflections on his first stint in jail, among other topics.
The interview was recorded on video around 2019 for a sympathetic documentary aimed at rehabilitating Epstein’s image, following his arrest more than a decade earlier on a count of soliciting prostitution, according to his brother, Mark. Bannon, who served as White House chief strategist early in Trump’s first term, is believed to have 15 hours of audio from his conversations with Epstein. He did not immediately respond to MS NOW’s request for comment Monday afternoon.
Bannon has not been accused of or charged with criminal wrongdoing in connection to Epstein’s crimes.
The material — released Friday by the Department of Justice as part of its investigation into the late financier — offers a rare example of extended verbal remarks from Epstein, who died by suicide in a New York jail cell in August 2019 while awaiting trial on federal sex trafficking charges.
About a half-hour into the interview, Epstein speaks about his famously cushy 13-month stint in a Florida jail, from June 2008 to July 2009. Thanks to a plea deal struck by then-U.S. Attorney Alexander Acosta, Epstein was allowed to leave the jail for up to 12 hours a day, six days a week on a work-release program.
But by Epstein’s account, the conditions were still rough.
He said he was in “an 8-by-10 cell with a bed in the back — 6-foot bed in the back — a chrome sink with toilet attached to it, and a little piece of metal sticking out that was supposed to act as a table.”
Bannon repeatedly asked Epstein if he had reflected on how he wound up in jail. Epstein continually denied that he had done so, and refused to take responsibility for what he had been convicted of.
“It never struck you about how to end up in a situation like this?” Bannon asked.
“No, that would be probably mean I would be too self-aware,” Epstein replied.
“You can’t possibly expect me to believe this,” Bannon said.
“I know,” Epstein replied. “I don’t believe it.”
Later, Bannon again pressed Epstein, asking if he had ever had “a moment of awareness of, ‘How could I get myself into this situation?’”
“No, I would just say, how strange that this happens,” Epstein replied. “Just, it’s strange. I’m wearing a jumpsuit and flip-flops.”
Much of the rest of the discussion features Bannon and Epstein debating theories of science and mathematics. At some points, though, these seemingly academic discussions take a real-world turn.
About an hour and a half into the interview, Bannon asked Epstein why money he donated to the Santa Fe Institute, a nonprofit scientific research instituteto “study the complexity of systems mathematically,” was a “total failure.”
Epstein replied: “It’s the failure of science. Because, in fact, to some extent — science doesn’t describe romance. I don’t know why I’m attracted to somebody.”
“I don’t know people are attracted to each other, and some — everyone has the same feeling. They’ve seen someone walk in the room and they say, ‘Oh, that person gives me a creepy feeling,’” Epstein said. “Science has tried to describe, science doesn’t describe what ‘creepy feeling’ means. They just know it’s a creepy feeling.”
The ex-financier proceeded to outline what he believed differentiates men and women.
“I think women, as I said the last time, have an intuitive sense. … They have intuition, they have feelings, and they’re able to deal in the realm of things that men — especially men like myself — find unexplainable,” he said, adding, “Men want to measure everything. Women are not really that interested in measuring.”
Other seemingly off-the-cuff exchanges between the men appeared to offer a peek into Epstein’s psyche.
When Bannon asked Epstein when he thinks human life begins, Epstein demurred, prompting Bannon to reply, “It can’t be measured, you’re just — you just hate making commitments.”
“That’s why I’m not married,” Epstein replied.
Later, Bannon asked if Epstein believed institutions should accept his donations. (In early 2019, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Media Lab rejected a donation from Epstein as scrutiny mounted over the allegations against him, prompted by an investigation published in late 2018 by the Miami Herald.)
“Is your money dirty money?” Bannon asked Epstein.
“No, it’s not,” Epstein said.
“Why is it not dirty money?” Bannon asked.
“Because I earned it,” Epstein replied.
“You earned it advising the worst people in the world, right, that do enormous bad things just to make more money,” Bannon said.
“I think it’s a legitimate question,” Epstein replied, adding, “Ethics is always a complicated subject.”
But perhaps the most striking exchanges came in the last minute of the tape, when Bannon asked, “Do you think you’re the devil himself?”
“No, but I do have a good mirror,” Epstein replied.
“It’s a serious question,” Bannon continued. “Do you think you’re the
devil himself?”
“I don’t know. Why would you say that?” Epstein asked.
“Because you have all the attributes,” Bannon replied. “You’re incredibly smart. You remember the devil is —”
“The devil’s smart?” Epstein said as he interrupted.
“The devil’s brilliant,” Bannon retorted. “You read Milton’s Paradise Lost —”
“No,” Epstein said. “The devil scares me.”
The interview ended abruptly a few seconds later.
Also included in the Friday document dump was a text exchange from December 2018 that appears to be between Bannon and Epstein discussing — among other things — President Donald Trump’s assistant at the time, Madeleine Westerhout. The exchanges imply that she and Trump had an intimate relationship, which both Westerhout and Trump have strenuously rejected.
“He’s [sic] much more calm, but the sight of him in the residence in his undies is hard to fathom,” Epstein wrote. “I’ll give you details when I see you.”
Westerhout did not respond to MS NOW’s request for comment.
White House spokesperson Abigail Jackson told MS NOW in a statement on Monday: “This is a salacious and false rumor that has been proven to be fiction.”
MS NOW is reviewing the documents released by the Justice Department in collaboration with journalists from NBC, AP, CNBC and CBS. Journalists from each newsroom worked together to examine the documents and share information about what is in them. Each outlet is responsible for its own independent news coverage of the documents.
Update, 9:09 p.m. ET: This story was updated with a response from the White House.
Julianne McShane is a breaking news reporter for MS NOW.
The Dictatorship
Grammys: Trevor Noah’ takes aim at absent Nicki Minaj, Trump
LOS ANGELES (AP) — Trevor Noah once again roamed through the audience during his monologue to open the Grammy Awardstaking pokes at the stars while standing right next to them, but he saved his most pointed jokes for absentees, and elicited an angry post from the president.
“ Nicki Minaj is not here,” Noah said, to big cheers from the audience at Crypto.com Arena. “She is still at the White House with Donald Trump discussing very important issues.”
Minaj this week visited and praised the president, the culmination of a move toward MAGA that she’s made in recent months.
Noah broke into a Trump impression. “Actually Nicki, I have the biggest ass, everybody’s saying it Nicki.”
In his sixth time hosting the show — and what he says will be his last — Noah mostly played it safe during his monologue, not delving too much into much politics or controversy, at least during his monologue. There was no mention of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (on a night when many attendees were wearing “ICE OUT” buttons).
But Noah got more pointed later in the show, after Billie Eilish won song of the year.
“Wow. That is a Grammy that every artist wants,” Noah said, “almost as much as Trump wants Greenland. Which makes sense. I mean, because Epstein’s island is gone, he needs a new island to hang out with Bill Clinton.”
After the show in a Truth Social post, Trump reacted.
“Noah said, INCORRECTLY about me, that Donald Trump and Bill Clinton spent time on Epstein Island. WRONG!!! I can’t speak for Bill, but I have never been to Epstein Island, nor anywhere close, and until tonight’s false and defamatory, statement, have never been accused being there, not even by the Fake News Media,” the post said. “Noah, a total loser, better get his facts straight, and get them straight fast. It looks like I’ll be sending my lawyers to sue this poor, pathetic, talentless, dope of an M.C.”
After the crowd’s reaction to the joke during the show, Noah said, “Oh, I told you, it’s my last year. What are you going to do about it?”
At a different point in the show, Noah joked about the president’s penchant for suing TV networks when he said the Grammys were airing “completely live” because “if we edited any of the show, the president would sue CBS for $16 billion,” referring to Trump’s recent history with CBS News and a settlement he got from Paramount last summer.
It had seemed at first like he wasn’t going to go very far into such material.
He said during the monologue Lauryn Hill was performing on the show for the first time since 1999.
“Do you understand how long ago that is?” he said. “Back in 1999, the president had had a sex scandal, people thought computers were about to destroy the world, and Diddy was arrested.”
Later in the show, Noah cozied up to the night’s biggest nominee, Kendrick Lamarand only congratulated him.
“I actually thought about writing a few jokes roasting you, but then I remembered what you can do to light-skinned dudes from other countries,” Noah, who is from South Africa, said in a reference to Lamar’s beef with the Canadian rapper Drake that culminated in last year’s big Grammy winner “Not Like Us.”
Later, he sat with Bad Bunny, and asked if he could come live with him in his native Puerto Rico if things got too bad in the U.S.
“Trevor I have some news for you,” Bad Bunny said. “Puerto Rico is part of America.”
The Recording Academy announced less than three weeks ago that Noah was returning “one final time.”
“I believe in term limits,” Noah said during the show.
Only singer Andy Williams, who hosted the Grammys seven times in the 1970s, has hosted more often.
Noah himself is a four-time Grammy nominee, and was up this year in the best audio book recording category for “Into The Uncut Grass,” a children’s story. He lost to the Dalai Lama.
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This story has been updated to correct the spelling of Nicki Minaj in several places.
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For more coverage of the 2026 Grammy Awards, visit: https://apnews.com/hub/grammy-awards
The Dictatorship
Kennedy Center will close for 2 years for renovations in July, Trump says
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump said Sunday he will move to close Washington’s Kennedy Center performing arts center for two years starting in July for construction, his latest proposal to upturn the storied venue since returning to the White House.
Trump’s announcement on social media follows a wave of cancellations by leading performers, musicians and groups since the president ousted the previous leadership and added his name to the building. Trump made no mention in his post of the recent cancellations.
His proposal, announced days after the premiere of “Melania, ” a documentary of the first lady was shown at the center, he said was subject to approval by the board of the Kennedy Center, which has been stocked with his hand-picked allies. Trump himself chairs the center’s board of trustees.
“This important decision, based on input from many Highly Respected Experts, will take a tired, broken, and dilapidated Center, one that has been in bad condition, both financially and structurally for many years, and turn it into a World Class Bastion of Arts, Music, and Entertainment,” Trump wrote in his post.
Neither Trump nor Kennedy Center President Ric Grenell, a Trump ally, have provided evidence to back up their claims about the building being in disrepair, and last October, Trump had pledged the center would remain open during renovations. In Sunday’s announcement, Trump said the center will close on July 4th, when he said the construction would begin.
“Our goal has always been to not only save and permanently preserve the Center, but to make it the finest Arts Institution in the world,” Grenell said in a post, citing funds Congress approved for repairs.
“This will be a brief closure,” Grenell said. “It desperately needs this renovation and temporarily closing the Center just makes sense – it will enable us to better invest our resources, think bigger and make the historic renovations more comprehensive. It also means we will be finished faster.”
The sudden decision to shutter and reconstruct the Kennedy Center is sparking blowback as Trump disrupts the popular venue, which began as a national cultural center but Congress renamed as a “living memorial” to President John F. Kennedy in 1964, in the aftermath of the slain president’s death. Opened in 1971, it is open year-round as a public showcase for the arts, including the National Symphony Orchestra.
Since Trump returned to the White House, the Kennedy Center is one of many Washington landmarks that he has sought to overhaul in his second term. He demolished the East Wing of the White House and launched a massive $400 million ballroom project, is actively pursuing building a triumphal arch on the other side the Arlington Bridge from the the Lincoln Memorial, and has plans for Washington Dulles International Airport.
Leading performing arts groups have pulled out of appearances at the Kennedy Center, most recently, composer Philip Glass, who announced his decision to withdraw his Symphony No. 15 “Lincoln” because he said the values of the center today are in “direct conflict” with the message of the piece.
Last month, the Washington National Opera announced that it will move performances away from the Kennedy Center in another high-profile departure following Trump’s takeover of the U.S. capital’s leading performing arts venue.
The head of artistic programming for the center abruptly left his post last weekless than two weeks after being named to the job.
A spokesperson for the Kennedy Center could not immediately be reached and did not respond to an emailed request for comment.
Late last year, as Trump announced his plan to rename the building — erecting his name on the building’s main front ahead of that of Kennedy — he drew sharp opposition from members of Congress, and some Kennedy family members.
Kerry Kennedy, a niece of John F. Kennedy, said in a social post on X at the time that she will remove Trump’s name herself with a pickax when his term ends.
Another family member, Maria Shriver, said at the time that it is “beyond comprehension that this sitting president has sought to rename this great memorial dedicated to President Kennedy,” her uncle. “It is beyond wild that he would think adding his name in front of President Kennedy’s name is acceptable. It is not.”
Late Sunday evening, Shriver posted a new comment mimicking Trump’s own voice and style, and suggesting the closure of the venue was meant to deflect from the cancellations.
She said that “entertainers are canceling left and right” and the president has determined that “since the name change no one wants to perform there any longer.”
Trump has decided, she said, it’s best “to close this center down and rebuild a new center” that will bear his name. She asked, “right?”
One lawmaker, Rep. Joyce Beatty, the Ohio Democrat and ex-officio trustee of the center’s board, sued in December, arguing that “only Congress has the authority to rename the Kennedy Center.”
On Sunday, Beatty said that once again Trump “has acted with total disregard for Congress,” which allocates funds to the center.
She questioned what comes next for the artists — and the building itself. “Let’s be clear: remodeling the premises will not restore the Kennedy Center to what it was. A return to artistic independence will,” she said. “America’s artists are rejecting this attempted takeover, and the administration knows it.”
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Associated Press writer Darlene Superville contributed to this report.
The Dictatorship
Celebrities wear pins protesting ICE at the Grammys
Entertainment’s awards season has coincided with the Trump administration’s mass deportation campaign in Minneapolis, forcing artists to decide whether and how to join the growing cultural revolt against immigration crackdowns.
Pushback from music’s biggest stars was visible Sunday from the Grammys red carpet and throughout the telecast. Activists spent the week pressing celebrities to don pins protesting the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement presence in cities, working with their teams to spread the message and circulating them at the many events leading up to the ceremony.
Billie Eilish, Finneas and Carole King wore pins while appearing onstage. Even Justin and Hailey Bieber, who don’t normally address American politics, had them. Eilish began her song of the year speech by professing that “no one is illegal on stolen land.” British soul pop singer Olivia Dean, recognized as best new artist, shared that she is the granddaughter of an immigrant — people who she said “deserve to be celebrated.” Expletives flew as ICE got cursed multiple times by winners including Kehlani.
“Before I say thanks to God, I’m gonna say: ICE out,” Bad Bunny said to great applause while accepting the award for best música urbana album. “We’re not savage, we’re not animals, we’re not aliens. We are humans and we are Americans.”
The frequent pushback and buttons’ prevalence marked a much stronger showing of support than organizers saw at last month’s Golden Globes. Public backlash has grown since a Border Patrol officer shot and killed 37-year-old nurse Alex Pretti and federal agents detained 5-year-old Liam Rabbit Ramos. The recent arrest of journalist Don Lemonwho attended Sunday’s ceremony, only added to the outcry.
Plus, as one organizer noted, the Grammys tend to draw a less risk-averse crowd than Hollywood’s shows.
“These are folks who are known for six-stage shows, crazy costumes, being kind of rebellious, punk rock — like that’s the music industry. And so, I think it makes sense that we would see good support,” Maremoto Executive Director Jess Morales Rocketto said ahead of the show. “These pins are about so much more than a red carpet moment. It’s about people taking a stand and doing what they can to show up to say that ICE should be out of our communities.”
Protest pins on the red carpet
Jason Isbell, Margo Price, Kehlani and Rhiannon Giddens were among the other artists wearing protest apparel on the Grammys red carpet.
Justin Vernon, whose band Bon Iver is up for best alternative music album, said he wore a whistle to honor the legal observers who are documenting federal agents’ actions on the streets.
“I think there’s a reason that music exists and it’s to heal and to bring people together,” he told The Associated Press. “But the real work are those observers on the on the ground in Minneapolis. We just want to want to shout them out.”
Earlier in the week, Mexican American singer Becky G had an explicit message for ICE on the nails she wore to the MusiCares Person of the Year gala. And at the Sundance Film Festival, several celebrities wore pins saying “ICE OUT” during their red carpet appearances, including Natalie Portman, Olivia Wilde and Zoey Deutch, who also wore a “BE GOOD” pin, referencing Renee Good, who was killed by an ICE officer last month.
Wilde told the AP that she was “horrified by this string of murders that we are somehow legitimizing and normalizing.”
“It’s really difficult to be here and to be celebrating something so joyous and beautiful and positive when we know what’s happening on the streets,” she added. “Americans are out on the streets marching and demanding justice, and we’re there with them. And if we can do anything with our platforms, you know, we can speak out and demand that ICE get out.”
Portman got emotional when asked about her “ICE OUT” pin at the premiere of her new film, “The Gallerist.”
“I’m so lucky to be here in a joyful, creative community celebrating a movie we’re really proud of. But it’s impossible to ignore what ICE is doing to our country. And I’m very inspired, though, by all of the amazing, amazing Americans who are coming out and supporting each other and being there in communities. It’s beautiful,” the actor said as she teared up.
Reasons celebrities may not speak out
As far as the Grammys go, Morales Rocketto, the community organizer who founded the Latino advocacy group Maremoto, said it’s “kind of a crapshoot” as to which entertainers actually wear the pins.
She described a range of industry forces working against artists’ political expression. Objections could come from record companies, managers or corporate partners.
“Maybe the design house that did their fashion deal for the red carpet didn’t want them to literally poke holes in the dress,” she said. “There’s like a million reasons for people not to do it.”
Artists might also face personal dangers themselves. Morales Rocketto pointed to the Trump administration’s threats to place ICE agents at the upcoming Super Bowl halftime performance by Bad Bunny“one of the most invincible” entertainers in her view.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if we see some Latino artists wearing them,” she said of the pins. “But the reality is that just because Latino artists are rich and famous, doesn’t mean that they are exempt from the lack of safety that permeates so many Latinos and Latino families. They themselves may be undocumented or only have a green card or have mixed status families.”
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AP Film Writer Lindsey Bahr and AP journalist Brooke Lefferts contributed reporting from Park City, Utah.
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