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Congress’ Epstein probe raises a thorny question: Who counts as a victim?

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Nearly a year after the launch of the House Oversight Committee’s Jeffrey Epstein investigation, lawmakers are now wading into a thorny debate over whether certain women in Epstein’s orbit should be considered co-conspirators or victims.

The Republican-led panel, eager to haul in witnesses who can shed new light on the convicted sex offender’s crimes, appears to have taken a side in recently asking Sarah Kellen — a top assistant to the late, disgraced financier — to sit for a transcribed interview on May 21.

Kellen was one of four women named as possible co-conspirators in the now-controversial 2007 agreement with Florida federal prosecutors that granted all of them immunity, while also allowing Epstein to spend minimal time in a county jail rather than face federal sex-trafficking charges.

“There is a list of four alleged victims that took plea deals that I think are co-conspirators and got let off the hook,” Rep. Anna Paulina Luna (R-Fla.), a member of the Oversight Committee, said recently. “And I’d like to bring them in.”

“If you’re an adult female and you’re recruiting underage girls, you’re not a victim. You’re a prostitute, a child predator, and a sex trafficker,” said Rep. Nancy Mace (R-S.C.), another committee member, in an interview. “Certainly the adult women that were recruiting underage girls should go to jail.”

But few of Epstein’s former associates have proven as fraught a subject for federal prosecutors as Kellen. In the immediate aftermath of Epstein’s suicide while awaiting trial on sex-trafficking charges in 2019, federal officials grappled with the question of whether to prosecute Kellen, according to two people familiar with the matter as well as documents released in the Epstein files.

The files show that Manhattan prosecutors discussed a possible witness tampering charge for Kellen and that they submitted a prosecution memo concerning her to then-U.S. Attorney Geoffrey Berman. But Kellen argued that she was a victim, according to the files and people familiar with the deliberations, who like others were granted anonymity to share private conversations. Prosecutors opted not to bring a case against her.

A lawyer for Kellen did not respond to a request for comment for this story.

House Oversight Chair James Comer (R-Ky.) said in an interview that several GOP women on his committee were eager to have Kellen testify and he has deferred to them in deciding which women should be invited to give statements in the Epstein probe. But while some members of Congress support the decision to bring in Kellen, others are also signaling they, too, recognize the complicated dynamics of questioning a woman who claims to have been sexually abused.

“For folks who are not trauma-informed, and folks who don’t understand this world, I think it can be an easy ‘yes, we should charge this woman,’” said Rep. Lateefah Simon (D-Calif.), who sits on the panel and previously worked in the San Francisco District Attorney’s office. “It’s a conversation that should be taken seriously.”

Simon added that she has been providing committee staff with “resources [on] how we look at how we treat and support survivors while they’re coming here, how to look at women who historically have been in these situations.”

At the same time, the committee is under increasing pressure to surface new information after the Justice Department’s haphazard release of the Epstein files — and as law enforcement in the United Kingdom has seized opportunities to arrest Epstein associates in contrast to the U.S.’ continued finger-wagging.

In the interview last month, Comer blamed the committee’s lack of progress, in part, on disagreements about who is and isn’t an Epstein victim.

“That is honestly one of the reasons why there’s been issues getting documents — [DOJ] released documents, and some of the victims say, ‘oh my gosh, you didn’t redact the names’ … Well, they were victimizers too,” Comer said. “Like they recruited other girls to come in. But they, I do believe, were victimized. This is a tough issue.”

Kellen had been accused in numerous civil lawsuits of scheduling young girls to give Epstein massages, with one lawsuit dubbing her “the lieutenant.” In Palm Beach, where police investigated Epstein, girls told detectives that Kellen would prepare rooms for the massages, laying out tables and lotions intended for their use.

But when prosecutors were mulling charges, Kellen’s attorneys argued that their client was abused, writing that “given the fact that we see her basically as a cog in Epstein’s wheel, acting entirely at his direction and doing what she did at a time that she herself was a very vulnerable victim, a [non-prosecution agreement] would be the appropriate disposition.”

In an interview with The Sun published around the period in 2020 in which her lawyers were attempting to fend off potential charges, Kellen also described herself as a “victim,” saying that she was “raped and abused weekly.”

During the sentencing in 2022 of Epstein’s only convicted co-conspirator, Ghislaine Maxwell, U.S. District Judge Alison Nathan described Kellen as “a knowing participant in the criminal conspiracy.”

Lauren Hersh, a former sex-trafficking prosecutor in Brooklyn who is now the CEO of World Without Exploitation — a coalition combating human trafficking and sexual exploitation — said situations like Kellen’s are “really common.” The Oversight panel, she suggested, would be better served by focusing on those who could not conceivably be considered a victim of Epstein instead of trickier cases like Kellen’s.

“There are a lot of people where it’s absolutely clear-cut they should be brought in,” Hersh said of Epstein’s associates. “So let’s start there.”

Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.), one of the GOP’s most vocal proponents of Congress using all available tools to bring Epstein’s co-conspirators to account, had a similar perspective.

Asked how one could determine whether someone like Kellen is a victim or a perpetrator, Massie said, “I don’t think you’re gonna figure that out in the forum that the Oversight Committee has. I think you need to have an investigation with discovery and presentation, adversarial presentation of facts in a courtroom to decide that — matters of guilt or innocence.”

Some members of the Oversight Committee who worked as, or with, prosecutors prior to serving in Congress also cautioned it was important to tread carefully.

“I’ve prosecuted cases where someone has been a victim and has also been charged with a crime, and that’s something that in the due course of justice — a court or jury can determine. Those types of factors can be considered,” said Rep. Wesley Bell (D-Mo.), a former St. Louis County prosecuting attorney.

But, he added, “given the circumstances at this point in time, anyone connected with the investigation should be called in.”

Other lawmakers defended the panel’s decision to call in Kellen. Rep. Melanie Stansbury (D-N.M.), a member of the Oversight Committee, said that since the committee’s ultimate goal was to support future trials of co-conspirators and build an evidentiary basis, it made sense to interview Kellen.

“Folks like Sarah Kellen were complicit in crimes,” Stansbury said. “Were they also victimized by Jeffrey Epstein? It’s very likely that was his pattern of abuse. But does that absolve them from culpability in this case? I think it depends on the specifics and the individual, and that’s why DOJ’s investigation and investigation and prosecution of these individuals is really important.”

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Congress

Some GOP senators are still grappling with the Todd Blanche nomination

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Senate Republicans are hopeful they will be able to confirm Todd Blanche as attorney general by the end of the week. But he’s not in the clear yet, as several undecided GOP senators continue to mull it over.

Blanche’s prospects were nonetheless much improved Monday — less than 24 hours after some GOP senators were predicting he was unlikely to get confirmed as a war of words escalated between President Donald Trump and holdout Republicans.

But then Blanche cut a deal with Sens. John Cornyn (R-Texas) and Thom Tillis (R-N.C.) late Sunday night to clarify a controversial settlement between Trump and the IRS, giving Blanche the votes he needed to get through the Judiciary Committee Tuesday.

He still needs to get through the full Senate, where he can only lose two Republican votes given likely unified opposition from Senate Democrats and Kentucky Sen. Mitch McConnell’s absence.

Several GOP senators who raised alarms last week about Trump’s public threats to rekindle the “Anti-Weaponization Fund” Cornyn and Tillis worked to kill declined to say Monday how they’d vote on Blanche.But in a positive sign for the acting attorney general, several are looking to Tillis and Cornyn, who are now supporting him, as a lodestar for their own deliberations ahead of likely floor votes later this week.

“I think certainly the fact that he has signed this order, basically disbanding [the fund] — that’s a pretty good step,” said Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska), before adding that she would “like to find out a little bit more about the negotiations.”

Murkowski said she plans to speak with Tillis and Cornyn.

“I’m curious about what went on over the weekend,” she said.

Blanche has made efforts to ingratiate himself with Murkowski. In July, he trekked to Alaska, in part at Murkowski’s urging, to better understand public safety and tribal jurisdiction matters. He recently announced a nine-figure settlement benefiting Alaska natives’ health care that Murkowski was pleased with.

“I just appreciated the fact that he went to the state,” Murkowski said. “He was only there for two days, but I had asked him in my initial meeting to go up to the state.”

Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-La.), who like Cornyn lost his primary earlier this year to a Trump-backed challenger, declined to discuss Blanche Monday. Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) added that she also wanted to talk to Tillis and Cornyn and read the agreement they struck with Blanche.

“Until I do that, I am not going to make a judgement,” Collins said.

Another Republican who hasn’t yet committed to supporting Blanche is Sen. John Curtis (R-Utah). He met with Blanche last week but hasn’t yet weighed in since Sunday night’s agreement. He had indicated before Sunday’s deal that he would be closely tracking Tillis and Cornyn during Tuesday’s Judiciary Committee meeting.

Getting Blanche’s nomination on a trajectory to pass the Senate this week would relieve some of the pressure on Senate Republicans, who are juggling a long to-do list and a shrinking runway to get it done. Trump, amid last week’s standoff, demanded that Senate Republicans confirm Blanche, including warning during a Cabinet meeting that they “will never get anybody like him.”

Tillis told reporters Monday that “the back-and-forth over the weekend was not helpful” but that the talks “ended up at an acceptable place.”

If Blanche gets out of the Judiciary Committee Tuesday as expected, the soonest the Senate could confirm him as attorney general is Saturday unless Democrats unanimously agree to help speed up a final vote.

Senate Majority Leader John Thune said Monday that he’s hopeful the Senate will be able to confirm Blanche but didn’t give an ironclad guarantee as the remaining undecided members review the agreement and talk to Tillis and Cornyn.

“I’d like to figure out a way, a path forward to get him done,” Thune said.

Democrats are likely to use Tuesday’s Judiciary Committee meeting, and the days leading up to a full Senate vote, to hammer Republicans over the deal Cornyn and Tillis struck. Many predicted Monday that Trump wouldn’t stick by the agreement that limits the scope of the IRS settlement and nullifies the $1.8 billion payout fund.

“There are so many loopholes. I wouldn’t be surprised if the president went ahead with the program,” said Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee.

Sen. Tammy Baldwin (D-Wis.) warned the remaining undecided Republicans about the deal: “I don’t think that that commitment is worth what it’s written on.”

While Democrats can drag Blanche’s confirmation into the weekend, they aren’t able to prevent him from being confirmed if at least 50 GOP senators support him. But they are determined to use the debate to hit at one of their central midterm campaign messages — corruption — with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer calling Blanche the “architect of Trump’s grifts.”

Tillis suggested Monday he still has questions about who in Trump’s orbit played a role in the roller coaster negotiations over the past week. While the retiring senator is prepared to support Blanche, he said that he’s “not done analyzing the anatomy of this deal and who played a role in there.”

“I’m not going to speak for other members, but I think that it’ll be a solid vote,” he added about Blanche’s chances of being confirmed.

Sen. John Kennedy (R-La.), who appeared skeptical during a Sunday morning talk show interview that Blanche would get through the Senate, did a 180 Monday when asked whether he would get confirmed: “Yes, I do.”

Jennifer Scholtes contributed to this report.

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‘He should quit’: Republican senators sound alarms about Max Miller accusations

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Multiple Senate Republicans joined Sen. Bernie Moreno in calling for Rep. Max Miller to step down from office Monday amid domestic abuse allegations from the Ohio senator’s daughter.

Bernie Moreno — father of Miller’s ex-wife, Emily Moreno — said in a statement Sunday that Miller should not serve in the House soon after the House Republican did a livestream video attempting to defend himself from abuse accusations.

Many of Bernie Moreno’s GOP colleagues were quick to back him following the statement.

“I don’t know [Miller]. I haven’t read a whole lot about him, but if [Moreno] thinks he ought to resign, I’m supportive of that,” Sen. Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia said in an interview.

Miller has denied the allegations, which include pouring hot water on his ex-wife and holding a gun to her head. He has also denied accusations from his ex-wife that he broke his daughter’s collarbone.

Sen. Roger Marshall of Kansas condemned Miller, adding, “He should resign. He should quit.”

“I don’t know Mr. Miller’s story, but I trust Bernie so much as a good friend, and his family has such high values,” Marshall said in an interview. “I couldn’t imagine them wanting this out in public. So to go through with this, it makes me think that they’re telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth.”

The surge of support from Bernie Moreno’s Senate colleagues marks the first significant crack in a wall of GOP silence regarding the allegations against Miller. The skepticism from Miller’s own party will almost certainly weigh down the congressman’s already floundering campaign as he battles Democratic candidate Brian Poindexter to keep his Cleveland-area House seat.

Miller has until Wednesday to withdraw from the ballot and allow a crash primary to select a replacement.

Some Republican lawmakers stopped short of calling on Miller to withdraw or resign while expressing grave concern about the allegations.

“The accusations are very serious, and if there is truth to them, I am one who says that our elected officials need to be held to high standards,” Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska said. “And certainly, when it comes to allegations of domestic abuse, child abuse, that’s not what we want in our lawmakers.”

A spokesperson for Miller did not immediately respond to a request for comment. In response to Moreno’s statement, Miller said on Sunday, “If my daughter said the same thing to me, I personally wouldn’t wait two years before holding him accountable.”

“You know this isn’t true and the only reason you are speaking out now is to hide from your own media circus,” he added in the post on X.

Notably still silent was GOP Sen. Jon Husted, Ohio’s other senator, who while leaving the Capitol Monday did not respond to reporters’ questions about whether Miller should resign.

Other Republicans in the Ohio House delegation are also staying quiet for now. Almost every House Republican from the state either declined to comment or did not respond to requests for comment on Moreno’s statement.

The exception was Rep. Jim Jordan, who brushed off questions in a Thursday CNN interview about Miller but noted he was “a good man” and was recently campaigning for him.

Asked Monday if Miller should still serve in Congress following Bernie Moreno’s statement, spokesperson for Jordan Stefanie Farrell said, “As Mr. Jordan has said, it’s up to the voters of Ohio’s 7th District.”

Back in the Senate, other Republicans who were unaware of the situation declined to weigh in on the incident.

“I am not aware of the situation, so I don’t have a comment right now,” said Sen. Joni Ernst (R-Iowa), who has been a leading GOP voice on domestic violence issues within the military.

But a steady drip of Republican senators said Monday evening they trusted Bernie Moreno.“It would surprise me if Bernie were being untruthful,” Sen. Cynthia Lummis of Wyoming said. “I guess I was surprised that it bubbled up to the public sphere, but I suspect that Bernie has got a beat on the situation.”

Sen. Jim Justice of West Virginia said he was unaware of the details of the allegations but that “Bernie’s a pretty level-headed guy.”

“I don’t know enough about the allegations, but like Bernie said, it sounds like he thinks he needs psychological help,” Sen. Rick Scott of Florida said, adding, “I trust Bernie.”

Chris Marquette contributed to this report.

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Budget Republicans to meet

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Senate Budget Committee Republicans will meet Tuesday morning to talk about advancing a fiscal blueprint for a new party-line spending bill.

Chair Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) declined to say , in an interview Monday if he plans to introduce a resolution this week, noting that he was “working with leadership” and that the “first priority” is to pass a stopgap spending bill. Sen. John Kennedy (R-La.), a panel member, said he didn’t expect the Senate to take up a budget resolution this week because “I don’t think my leadership wants to do it.”

Senate Majority Leader John Thune hasn’t ruled out taking up a budget resolution but has been frank about the challenges it faces among GOP senators.

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